best 12ax7 for phase inverter

I haven't built a tube power section yet, but plan on building a (2) or (4) el84 push pull poweramp soon. I did however read somewhere that long plates are not a good choice for cathodyne (high cathode voltage) PI circuits but good for long tail circuits (don't know . Feb 28, 2011. Logged. i thought it might be useful to share this information here. I prefer to have an unbalanced tube in the PI, because it gives a little more character to the power amp. The order of tubes in the '65 Princeton Reverb reissue that I have is described by Sweetwater as being "based" on the "blackface" circuit. This is actually two valves in one glass envelope. 12ax7 long tail pair phase inverter driving el84's. « on: April 20, 2013, 08:49:56 pm ». But, if you are still looking for something more cheaper and reliable, then you are free to go for Tung-Sol 12AX7 Preamp Vacuum Tube, Single. The key to choosing the best 12AX7 tubes is establishing the qualities that you require. 12AY7's have less gain than a 12AX7, 5751, and 12AT7, but more than a 12AU7. Slight drop in volume but worth the sacrifice. Also in a non-master amp, if you have a weak phase inverter tube, you'll have less preamp distortion at a given spot on the dial. Has anyone had good results replacing a 12AX7 in the preamp with a 12AY7? 4. Another mullard in the PI is the worst, to me. The TAD 12AX7A-C BALANCED PHASE DRIVER can replace any 7025, 12AX7WA, 12AX7WB, 12AX7LPS, 12AX7EH, ECC83 or E83CC. The Paul C. phase inverter mod is supposed to be good, maybe I overlooked something. The perfect current production tube for the phase inverter slot in my Peavey Classic 30 amp. The 12AX7 isn't typically used in a push-pull PI, where a 12AT7 does the job it's supposed to do. Ky. Telefunken smooth plate is the best phase inverter tube ever made for any amp. Puffer Fish, May 20 . #3. It's also very common as a phase inverter in guitar amplifiers. So I put a one of these Mullard 12AX7 in the phase inverter slot and it sounded great. best way to do it is witha $3.00 pot, not a $30 tube that's. been dipped in snake oil. The even balancing makes them a nice phase inverter and allows you push the front end of the amp a little harder. this could save alot of headaches and cash. I currently have a 12AX7 in my SCX2, but generally use a NOS Philips USA 12AT7 WC JAN mil tube, there. I got this to use as the phase inverter in a Bugera V22 Infinium Head. These are what I would get if I wanted the arguably best tube for the money. . Great tube at a great price. Anyone else tried this? Hopefully, this short article will explain what the phase splitter valve and clear up any questions about this . For 12AX7 PI, consider a 5751 for a lower gain sub - this will give a tighter, cleaner character. Each 12AX7 is like two tubes in one, it has "two sides" inside, and can be split for various things. The phase splitter valve in guitar amplifiers. However, it has a weaker plate current. The 12AT7 also has a gain factor of 70, but since its plate resistance is lower, it draws more plate current than the 5751 and 12AX7, making it less suitable for use in low current high gain stages. It is a nice quiet tube that is excellent for phono stage preamps and recording studio microphone preamps. connect the pot's wiper to the B+ eyelet (where the two. 12AT7s can be used in a pinch. Both times the v1 was a Japanese 12ax7, a matsush*ta. Using a 12AX7 in place of a 12AT7 in the PI will give a looser feel, and earlier breakup that may feel more lively. If you have a push-pull circuit, an NOS 12AT7 can be had cheaply and will likely outlast you. If you've already got a 12AX7 in there, I don't think there's anywere for you to go. The Fender 5E3 circuit has a 12AX7 preamp and phase inverter and two 6V6 power tubes. So comparing and contrasting both the tubes, you may observe that the gain factor is inversely proportional to the current. Brents got Sylvanias GE, RCA, Westinghouse starting at $30. Subtle but noticeable as the tubes were pretty much opposites. 2 x TAD 6L6GC-STR RCA Blackplate replicas. 12AT7s can be used in a pinch. In a split-phase PI, the gain is supposed to be 1 in some circuits, but in my experience one of the triodes does matter if it's used as a driver stage. Special selection BALANCED PHASE DRIVER tube for the use in phase driver / phase inverter circuits of guitar amps as well as for HiFi-Audio amplifiers. I have a couple "theory" questions. Likewise, for a 12AT7-designed PI, a swap to E180CC will give analogous gain drop (an E180CC is to a 12AT7 like a 5751 is to a 12AX7). Fourth tube is the phase inverter. No complaints at all, and it stacks up very well compared to a Philips 7025 USA made tube when tested in the same position. This vacuum tube is perfectly suited to this, as it offers exceptional headroom and crystal clear, high fidelity sonic qualities. 7025 specified. Same pedal, same guitars, same settings etc. There are two designs that dominate guitar amps. Current Tube lineup is V1 CV4024, V2 JJ 12AX7S, V3 CV4024. This is the phase inverter tube. Beware though, because the phase inverter is a hard working valve, and some 12AX7s run very hot and might not last long in that position. Beware though, because the phase inverter is a hard working valve, and some 12AX7s run very hot and might not last long in that position. Second tube is a 12AX7. 12AX7 is your standard preamp tube. The ECC83 (12AX7) has the highest gain of course and will be the most easy to overdrive, but it has the least output signal swing, so is the best choice for amps which focus on preamp distortion. 12AX7WA/WB/WC types hold up better than other 12AX7 tubes in cathode follower circuits where the maximum cathode to heater rating of 100 volts is often exceeded. Power tubes are a pair of 6L6GC (5881s originally suggested). The ECC82 (12AU7) is an excellent choice for a clean / bass amp. Best Phase Inverter tewb for JMP 2203. Best 12AX7 Tube Comparisons and Reviews Our Recommended Tube Brands JJ ECC83S Microphonic Noise Response Tung-Sol 12AX7 Microphonic Noise Response Genalex 12AX7 Microphonic Noise Response Mullard 12AX7 Microphonic Noise Response Electro-Harmonix 12AX7 Microphonics Noise Response Groove Tube 12AX7 Microphonic Noise Response PSVANE 12AX7 Microphonic I'm currently using this tube as a phase inverter on a Leak Stereo 50 HiFi amp, and the JJ is a great sounding tube. Phase Inverter tubes can wear pretty quickly and if not replaced when they're ready to be it can affect your tone more than you think. In these four soundclips, the Friedman Small Box's phase inverter is swapped from a 12AX7 (Clip 9) to a 5751 (Clip 10), 12AT7 (Clip 11), and 12AY7 (Clip 12). This JJ T-12AT7-JJ amp tube comes across as a seamless replacement for any 6201, ECC81, or 12AT7 tube. It would have been helpful if you told us which amp we're talking about, as they certainly don't all respond to that equally. The 12AX7 is a dual triode and in that circuit one triode functions as a driver and the other triode functions as a phase inverter. "Going from a 12AX7 to a 12AT7 in the PI (phase inverter) will yield a change in output tube distortion, touch, and output dynamics in most amps. Both are quiet and clear. The PI is the tube that creates the push-pull waveform and it's the last tube the guitar signal sees before hitting the output tubes. Joined: Jan 31, 2010 . 12AX7 Tube. Everything kept constan. Suggest a 12AX7 of reasonable quality and with good heater insulation, though very low noise or hum is not required. The large plates make them more prone to . Electro-Harmonix 12Ax7 Ehg Vacuum Tube Gold Pins. All of these brands tend to be reliable, although I get bad ones from time to time. Preferred Series 7025 and Tung-Sol 12AX7 are suitable, 5751 not recommended. I order a JJ 12AX7 MPI from a specialty tube shop, and the difference was superb. I have a Metro GMP45 and I use 2 x Mullard 10M Gold Pins in v1 x v2 and a 57 Mullard Long Plate Sq Getter in phase inverter. My current favorite is the JJ ECC803S because it gives a nice push and crunch and helps with sustain a bit. In a phase inverter, one of the triodes drives one power tube, and the other triode drives the other power tube. Serving as an excellent choice for reverb speaker drivers, phase inverters, and all-purpose preamp use, the JJ T-12AT7 features solid construction for long-term functional life. I see that the 12AY7 has a gain factor of 44 while the 12AX7 is 100. Also I don't suggest using the long plate ECC803. 10 Best 12ax7 Tubes. Swap the 12AX7 in driver section with a JJ and the 12AU7s with NOS JAN Philips (military grade). Power tubes are a pair of 6L6GC (5881s originally suggested). After hours and hours of analysis and deduction, we come to the decision that Tung-Sol 12AX7 Preamp Vacuum Tube, Single could be the best 12ax7 tube for phono preamp for your needs. Serving as an excellent choice for reverb speaker drivers, phase inverters, and all-purpose preamp use, the JJ T-12AT7 features solid construction for long-term functional life. Hi, I have a Koch Studiotone 20W tube amp, with 3 12AX7 preamp tubes and 2 EL84 output tubes.What kind of tube should I use in the phase-inverter to maximize output? Some believe that having both sides of the tube matched, like matching power tubes, is best for the PI spot. 10% yes perhaps. Best Overall Preamp Tube: The Mullard 12AX7 (vintage) The mighty Mullard tube is always the first tube one should consider when retubing a vintage Marshall amplifier. I will dig more into it. We are often asked by customers "What is the phase splitter valve (or phase inverter valve) and is it special or different from the other valves in my valve guitar amplifier?". It is a great all-rounder. Neither is better. The lower gain is a factor but the larger factors are: Posted August 25, 2007. IMO the 12AT7 has 2 effects that seem opposite of each other. Originally posted by misterwhizzy View Post. Fender amps used 12AT7s for their phase inverter. You can also find it in hi-fi equipment. JJs seem to make Ampegs sound *just* right. It is what is called a 'double triode'. I'm talking about the phase inverter or PI tube. Suggest a 12AX7 of reasonable quality and with good heater insulation, though very low noise or hum is not required. So is this one. I have a RCA long/black plate 12ax7 in the PI slot now, and it seems to be a happy medium between too detailed and too dark. Is this because the gain is lower in the 12AT7? I found them very smooth and well balanced in terms of bass, mids and treble response. Has anyone had good results replacing a 12AX7 in the preamp with a 12AY7? Re: Phase Inverter 12ax7 suggestions. Preferred Series 7025 and Tung-Sol 12AX7 are suitable, 5751 not recommended. Got a 6072 (12AT7) on order for V1 and hoping for more improvement. Remove the two. 12AX7WA/WB/WC types hold up better than other 12AX7 tubes in cathode follower circuits where the maximum cathode to heater rating of 100 volts is often exceeded. They tend to be microphonic anywhere but in phase-inverter postions, so just go with the regular JJ ECC83. It was originally designed as a low noise tube and was actually developed… 3 Phase Inverter preamp tubes are compared in a 1977 Marshall JMP 2204 using a 2010 Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty 1957 Reissue. Like Marshall amplifiers, vintage Mullard tubes were hand made in Great Britain, and they are regarded as some of the best vacuum tubes ever made. The 12AU7 is also commonly used in a specific part of an amp, which is known as the phase inverter section. Even though I've been sick with the COVID-19 virus that's going around, I've been trying to play my guitar when I feel good enough. I can see where maybe you might want different EQ . Of course, this is not just with 12AX7. Summary: Great choice for phase inverter position. Each 12ax7 has two parts. When in doubt, we start with Tung-Sol 12AX7.TungSol 12AX7 handles everything from vintage rock to a clean tone sound. 10% yes perhaps. To help us hear how the progressive decrease in PI-tube gain eases up on the output stage, I'm using the amp's rhythm channel (gain at 4, master at 5). Fourth tube is the phase inverter. Suggest a 12AX7 of reasonable quality and with good heater insulation, though very low noise or hum is not required. Most amps use either a 12AX7 or 12AT7 for this purpose. We recommend these for long tail phase inverter stages which are common in most push pull circuits (most all guitar amps), or anywhere that symmetrical sections are desired. Answer (1 of 4): Hi, thanks for the A2A. I've tried all the tubes and a 12AX7 makes my little amp grind like a bastard,but it's got no clean headroom.Good for small clubs where I just do blues or classic rock but not so good at the medium sized clubs.That's when I pop in a 12AT7 or the 12BH7 and it shines with a pedal board. I heard that a 12ax7 will sound a little more aggressive than a 12at7. The harshness was gone, the EQ responded better and the mids were fatter. The lower gain is a factor but the larger factors are: To help us hear how the progressive decrease in PI-tube gain eases up on the output stage, I'm using the amp's rhythm channel (gain at 4, master at 5). Brents got Sylvanias GE, RCA, Westinghouse starting at $30. Ruby 12AX7 (China) Mullard 12AX7 (Russia) Each tube was installed in the respective amps, allowed to warm up just long enough so that the listeners could retain the memory of the last tube's tone as clearly as possible. I order a JJ 12AX7 MPI from a specialty tube shop, and the difference was superb. plate load resistors (100K and 82K, for a blackface) and. And for under $15, it's worth giving a try. Top 10 Best 12ax7 Tubes. You do not want a 12AX7 with two triodes that are wildly different from each other in this case. Discussion in 'The Workbench' started by charveldan, Feb 28, 2015. 12AT7s can be used in a pinch. The stock power tubes in my Fender '65 Princeton Reverb reissue guitar amplifier were starting to sound ratty, so I thought I'd order some NOS vacuum tubes for it from Roy and Dale at Radio Electric Supply, my go-to guys for NOS USA vacuum tubes. I've been studying schematics such as Vox style el84 and the Hoffman 18Watt Stout schematics. Page 2 of 2 < Prev 1 2. charveldan Well-Known Member. For less gain, you can substitute with a 12AV7. The 5751 is a great 12AX7/ECC83 substitute for users that desire a bit less gain. Swap the two 12AX7s in the preamp chassis with JJs. The phase inverter tube plays a huge part in how this tone king sounds. It's a great choice. I actually use a 12BH7 in my phase inverter to get a sweet clean amp that takes pedals extremely well. The older "real" 5751's have extra thick mica spacers and extra support rods to minimize microphonics. So if you had your fave 12AX7 in V1, would you not also want that fave 12AX7 in the following stages? The 12AX7WC has closely matched sections making it ideal for phase inverter circuits. Nov 5, 2012. If you're . Power tubes are a pair of 6L6GC (5881s originally suggested). This ensures that the stages are biased appropriately so you get as-clean-a-signal as practicable. 12-04-2017, 05:12 PM. 2,766. 6681. Preferred Series 7025 and Tung-Sol 12AX7 are suitable, 5751 not recommended. I think the "special" PI tube is a 12AX7 with a matched triode. If the Power tubes of . Recently I changed the stock 12ax7 to a NOS 5751 and the sound is pretty good but the output volume is a bit lower than before.So a. (i.e gain stage 1, gain stage 2 are both on the same preamp tube) The PI combines both halves of the signal (after the gain stages) (again, depends on the amp, and how it was designed) but the premise is that you want a balanced tube so that . One is the "Cathodyne", also known as the "Split-Load" (Fig. Power tubes are a pair of 6L6GC (5881s originally suggested). 12AY7 / 6072. The first replacement p.i. I'm on my third Sovtek 12AX7LPS as I change out the PI tube whenever I change the power tubes. The 2.2 meg resistor that goes to the second 12ax7 grid and the other end to "F" B+ section, might be the problem for some reason, its supposed to smooth out output distortion and add headroom slightly. I also like Chinese 12AX7 tubes in the phase inverter because the bright tonal character adds a nice bite. The 12AX7WC has closely matched sections making it ideal for phase inverter circuits. 12AY7's will allow for a cleaner tone and a bigger sweep of the gain and volume controls on your amp. Ive attached a copy of the schematic for the Fender 5E3 circuit. They have very large ribbed plates and great sound reproduction. I have a Metro GMP45 and I use 2 x Mullard 10M Gold Pins in v1 x v2 and a 57 Mullard Long Plate Sq Getter in phase inverter. The 12AY7 valve versus the 12AX7 (ECC83) valve. The Fender 5E3 circuit has a 12AX7 preamp and phase inverter and two 6V6 power tubes. So most amp designers design their stages around that. 12AT7s can be used in a pinch. Genalex Gold Lion 12Ax7 Tube (Balanced Triodes) Electro-Harmonix 12Ax7, Matched Pair. This is the tremolo (vibrato) oscillator. However, the 12AU7 is frequently used in the guitar amp's phase inverter position owing to its excellent acoustic fidelity. For my Hellcat, it had a JJ 12AX7 in the phase inverter stock. Third tube is a 12AX7. To get an unbalanced phase inverter effect that some people seek (like harp players) you would need to drop in a tube with a widely unbalanced value to over come the phase inverter correcting thing our amps do. Joshabr1, Feb 28, 2015. If you wish to use a 5751 in a 12AX7 position to reduce gain we recommend you use the JAN-Philips 5751 tube. #1. there are current production 12AX7 that will die if you put them in a phase inverter position or in a cathode follower position. Re: 12ax7 Phase inverter voltages. For a typical Fender PI stage, for instance, you use a 100K linear pot. These are what I would get if I wanted the arguably best tube for the money. The Sovtek 12AX7-LPS an entirely new design from Sovtek and a great step up in sound quality. That is a Sovtek tube and doesn't sound anything like the 12AX7C in the phase inverter circuit. Any 12AX7 or 7025 is usable here-it need not be low-noise or low-hum, nor does it need to be tested for microphony. "Going from a 12AX7 to a 12AT7 in the PI (phase inverter) will yield a change in output tube distortion, touch, and output dynamics in most amps. It came highly recommended by trusted sources and did not disappoint. 7025 specified. Electro-Harmonix 12Ax7 / Ecc83 Preamp Vacuum Tubes (Three Pack) The Bugera 12AX7A is most likely the best of the modern day manufactured tubes. JJ 5751 with fully Balanced Triodes. I see that the 12AY7 has a gain factor of 44 while the 12AX7 is 100. tube I tried was a 5751 (also JJ). Suggest a 12AX7 of reasonable quality and with good heater insulation, though very low noise or hum is not required. This tube need not be low-noise or low-hum, nor does it need to be tested for microphony. Is this because the gain is lower in the 12AT7? 1), and the other is the "Long-Tailed Pair", derived from a circuit called the Schmitt Inverter (Fig. Preferred Series 7025 and Tung-Sol 12AX7 are suitable, 5751 not recommended. If you've already got a 12AX7 in there, I don't think there's anywere for you to go. #3. This JJ T-12AT7-JJ amp tube comes across as a seamless replacement for any 6201, ECC81, or 12AT7 tube. It has been present on the market since the 1940s. Should I consider replacing the phase inverter too? What a lovely warm tone. « Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 05:25:34 am ». Dolton Beatrice 13 0. Ive attached a copy of the schematic for the Fender 5E3 circuit. turns out there are new production tubes that use spiral filament instead of the regular one. TungSol 12AX7 is our go-to tube for guitar amps.. Tung-Sol 12AX7 delivers good gain, but without washing out the fine details and textures. After all the tubes were heard, some participants requested to hear various pairs of tubes together for comparison. I recently swapped the phase inverter on my bassman clone for a CV4024 (12AT7) instead of the 12AX7. That is a Sovtek tube and doesn't sound anything like the 12AX7C in the phase inverter circuit. The 470R is the bias resistor. 7025 specified. The 12AY7 valve (also known as the 6072) is a 9-pin tube. You can indeed try to swap your PI position tube for something else on most amps, particularly if like in this case you go for a. Should I consider replacing the phase inverter too? It's commonly used as the phase inverter in some hi-fi amps, Ampeg and Fender amps. Fourth tube is the phase inverter. I was using a Tung Sol 12AX7 in v3 (phase inverter) of my reissue fender bassman and I found the sound overly bright and harsh - couldn't dial it out EQ wise. For my Hellcat, it had a JJ 12AX7 in the phase inverter stock. Product Details. I seem to remember the Doc saying at a Z-Fest he likes long plate tubes in the phase inverter and indeed most (not all) of my Dr. Z amps have balanced Sovtek 12AX7LPS tubes for the PI. Fourth tube is the phase inverter. The 12AX7LPS sounds great in the dtb50's overdrive channel. It's the tube I have in my Bassman right now for the phase inverter and it sounds good there. The stock tubes are so-so. In these four soundclips, the Friedman Small Box's phase inverter is swapped from a 12AX7 (Clip 9) to a 5751 (Clip 10), 12AT7 (Clip 11), and 12AY7 (Clip 12). Back to the Phase Inverter. Both the preamp and output tubes sounded a little warmer with the 5751 and brighter with the ECC81. A Balanced ECC83 Valve for the phase splitter position. Best 12AX7 For Guitar and Bass Amps TungSol 12AX7. Fender amps used 12AT7s for their phase inverter. Hi, I was wondering if anyone can give me advice on what tube type and brand of tube to use as a phase inverter for my 50 watt JCM 800. An example is a phase inverter, which drives the power tubes. The Bugera vacuum tube has ultra-low audio and microphonic noise. However, as seen from behind (above), left to right, the tube complement is: V7 5AR4 (rectifier tube); V6 6V6 (power tube #2); V5 6V6 (power tube #1); V4 12AX7 (1/2 vibrato & 1/2 phase inverter); V3 12AX7 (1 . The tube has a relatively high input voltage. The Split-Load is the simplest arrangement. It's the tube I have in my Bassman right now for the phase inverter and it sounds good there. A 12DW7 would give you that effect, because the two sides of the tube are something like 100 % gain and 20 % gain. 2). 7025 specified. It puts the cathode about 1-2V above the voltage of the tail resistor/each grid. If I have a very detailed tube in the phase inverter, it tends to be way too bright and ice-picky. In this application, you will get good gain with a warmer sound than the 12AT7. Dougstubes.Com < /a > 10 Best 12AX7 tubes high fidelity sonic qualities 5751 is a choice. By charveldan, Feb 28, 2015 use a 100K linear pot since the 1940s and other... Rock to a clean tone sound it has been present on the market since the 1940s 12AY7 (... Tone king sounds factor is inversely proportional to the current this tone king sounds the TAD 12AX7A-C balanced phase can... A one of the triodes drives one power tube, and 12AT7, but than. Jan mil tube, there i heard that a 12AX7 with a 5751 in a 12AX7 will a! This tube need not be low-noise or low-hum, nor does it need to be good, i. 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Another mullard in the following stages that is excellent for phono stage preamps and recording studio preamps! 2 of 2 & lt ; Prev 1 2. charveldan Well-Known Member shop, the!, it had a JJ 12AX7 MPI from a specialty tube shop, and other. Out there are new production tubes that use spiral filament instead of the resistor/each! Balanced in terms of bass, mids and treble response the long plate ECC803 as-clean-a-signal as practicable great! Position to reduce gain we recommend you use the JAN-Philips 5751 tube doubt, start. My SCX2, but generally use a 5751 ( also known as the phase inverter and... 1-2V above the voltage of the schematic for the money it & # x27 s! My current favorite is the phase inverter mod is supposed to be tested for microphony Groove tubes SAG 12AX7 <... Has closely matched sections making it ideal for phase inverter stock 12AT7 can be cheaply. Right now for the money imo the 12AT7 sources and did not disappoint as. In this case a 5751 in a Peavey Classic 30 Ampeg and Fender amps mids and treble response tube Audio... More improvement studio microphone preamps think the & quot ;, also known the. You had your fave 12AX7 in V1, would you not also want that fave in... Matched sections making it ideal for phase inverter tube to maximize output volume trusted sources did. Ultra-Low Audio and microphonic noise not just with 12AX7 matched sections making it ideal for phase inverter: Which Better... 6L6Gc ( 5881s originally suggested ) overdrive channel & lt ; Prev 1 2. charveldan Well-Known Member to,... Gain, you can best 12ax7 for phase inverter with a 12AY7 s wiper to the current connect the pot & # ;! Started by charveldan, Feb 28, 2015 what tube for the money low-noise or low-hum, nor it. Sound quality warmer with the regular JJ ECC83 i prefer to have an unbalanced tube in your amp Nov 5, 2012 valve also... In terms of bass, mids and treble response 12AX7 for Ampeg SVT power amp valve... The difference was superb that desire a bit less gain i heard that a in... Drives the other power tube of bass, mids and treble response the 1940s an excellent for. Stages are biased appropriately so you get as-clean-a-signal as practicable wanted best 12ax7 for phase inverter arguably Best tube for Audio believe... Will likely outlast you 12AY7 has a gain factor of 44 while the 12AX7 my. Tubes are a pair of 6L6GC ( 5881s originally suggested ) 2 effects that seem opposite each!: JJ Electronics Amplifier... < /a > Product Details 5751 ( also JJ ) ; m my... And for under $ 15, it had a JJ 12AX7 in my right...

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best 12ax7 for phase inverter